Book Review: “Untrue” by Wednesday Martin

I have just recently finished the book, Untrue: Why Nearly Everything We Believe About Women, Lust, and Infidelity Is Wrong and How the New Science Can Set Us Free” by Wednesday Martin. For a guy like me who has written on female sexuality (and how it pertains to relationship, marriage and infidelity), this is not what I would call a major eye-opener of a book. In fact, I am going to go out on a limb and say that I agree with most of what Ms. Martin says. There’s nothing really ground-breaking here for me or for most of my readers. We’re not her target audience, after all.

What IS interesting to me is that she has unknowingly written what may be the most intensely anti-marriage mainstream book  I’ve read in quite some time. It’s well-written. It’s smart. It’s funny. Yes, she approaches her subject from an unabashedly feminist perspective, using history and evolutionary psychology to build her case, but the conclusions are the same as your typical angry 20-something guy ranting about women on Reddit:

  • Women are not anywhere near as chaste and pure as you think they are. They cheat. A lot. Hell, your grandma probably cheated.
  • Women are every bit as sexual as men. Just because men have higher levels of testosterone doesn’t mean women don’t get crazy horny if the circumstances are right. In fact, women are turned on by WAY more than what men are. Their sexuality is extremely fluid. They’re made for sex.
  • Women are just not turned on by traditional monogamy. They want fun and excitement. This is why women are the ones predominantly pushing for open marriages and polyamory. They need the extra oomph to get them going. Marriage and kids turns off their sexual machine.
  • It’s by no means unusual for a woman to get her sexual needs met by one man (her Lover) and her comfort and financial resources from another (her Provider).

What I think Martin fails to appreciate is how much of a “holy shit” this is for one particular (and important) section of our population: Monogamous men that are looking to settle down with one woman for the rest of their lives.

I can just picture some normal guy with a good job, healthy 401k and a girlfriend of three years he’s about to propose to. He’s aimlessly walking through the book store and sees a copy of this book prominently displayed along with other seedy “sex” and “relationship” books. He picks it up, takes a look… reads a few pages… and mindlessly takes it over to the coffee shop area. A few chapters and one large cappucino later, and he’s angrily texting his girlfriend. “We need to talk.”

On a big picture scale, what may be seen as an understandably “empowering” and freeing” sexual manifesto for many women will be used by a GIANT chunk of our society (men) as a handy excuse to completely bail out of the monogamy industry. In other words, the more the “secret” gets out, the more men may very well opt out of the whole monogamous marriage process.

Men WANT the dream of the woman who has eyes only for him and who will be devoted to him no matter what life throws their way. Most men can’t even CONCEIVE of their married life in any other way. It’s a dream that many of us men have been spoon fed since the day we first noticed girls. We’ve been told out whole lives what marriage was SUPPOSED to be… and books like this are telling us that we were lied to? Okay… then we don’t want to participate in this game anymore” many men are saying.

Instead, men will live comfortably in their shitty little apartments, with their shitty but comfortable jobs, a steady but not exciting paycheck, their modest 401k savings, their video games, little social interaction, and way too much porn. Other than the pickup truck in the driveway, their vasectomy will be the only other major life expense. They don’t want to have a major “oops” and ruin all the good stuff they have going on!

Obviously, this would have dramatic repercussions for the economy and for state of the Western family. Economists are already freaking out about dropping fertility rates and subsequent lack of spending. We have real-world examples of how this dynamic plays out with the current situation in Japan and their “Herbivore Men”. It’s not pretty.

Make no mistake about it, the “monogamous married couple with 2.5 kids” model is an industry. It drives our consumption economy. From the expensive wedding, to the expensive honeymoon, the way-too-big house, the pointless SUV, the hybrid sedan, the namebrand baby items, the namebrand clothes, the expensive vacations, the expensive divorces… it’s a giant machine that is the hub of a very big economic wheel. A viral change in mindset can shut the machine down a little at a time.

FACT: Women drive 84% of all consumer spending in the U.S. That’s $7 trillion dollars of spending annually. Trillion. With a T. 

Good, quality men have always been on the edge of opting out of the marriage industry… and things like Untrue are all it may take to push them right over the edge into eternal bachelorhood.  What was once a goal to strive for (marriage and raising kids) is now a giant life-ruining accident they want to avoid, all because their vision of what a relationship is supposed to be has been upturned. Marriage is now seen as a huge fun-killer for the other half of the population. As Wednesday Martin says in the title of the book: “… How the New Science Can Set Us Free”. Set women free from what? Monogamy? I think if your wise old grandma were here, she would tell you, “Honey, be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.”

According to Martin and “Untrue”,   it’s time the rest of society get with the program and recognize women’s sexual autonomy and change the game to accomodate their needs. We’ll all be better off for it.

Martin’s book and the subject matter is not considered “mainstream” just yet. She’s not a household name. The subject is still considered a “fringe” topic by many, but it’s one that is gaining a lot of ground in a hurry. It seems like everyone has a buddy whose wife just suggested an open marriage, or a wife who got caught sexting a guy from work, or a wife who simply walked away from the husband and kids to be with the sexy loser.  It happens.

The question is… okay, now what?  If what Martin says is correct… what do YOU do about it?

“Dear DSO, What’s up with you and open marriages?”

Dear D.S.O.,

I’ve been following you on Facebook and have read all of your posts on the website. I think what you’re doing is great and means a lot to guys like me. There’s one thing I don’t understand, and that’s why you seem to be so hung-up on open marriages. I have a friend that’s in an open marriage and they seem to get along great. My ex-wife and I were in a sexless marriage for years and I suggested to her that we think about opening our marriage. She didn’t agree with it, so we didn’t do it (it turns out the reason we weren’t having sex was because she was cheating on me for three years). I totally get why some people may want to explore that kind of marriage. If it works for them, what’s the big deal?

– Steve

Dear Steve,

I will be the first to say that anyone and everyone should be able to do whatever they please in the confines of their own bedroom. If it has no effect on me and my life and doesn’t hurt society in general, what do I care? Let your freak flag fly! I personally know people who are swingers and they seem to have excellent marriages. I truly do not care and don’t think it’s my business to preach what is what and what isn’t right for their sex life.

BUT… please understand the specific phenomenon that I am discussing in my posts. I’m looking out for men. My readers. Guys who have been hurt in relationships to toxic women and are starting over in life. This current phenomenon of “open marriage” isn’t about two people mutually talking things through and deciding that having sex with others would be a fun and good experience for their marriage. The phenomenon I’m talking about is a one-sided epiphany by bored wives who (understandably) want a little extra oomph in their life. Nine times out of ten, it’s actually a wife who has feelings for somebody outside of their marriage and they’re looking for a safe excuse to start an affair.

Thanks to the current social climate, the trend is for married women to treat their sexuality like a toddler that has just discovered a gun under dad’s bed. They have no concept of safety. It’s up to society to say, “No… you’re married, Susan. Put the gun down. It could be loaded. Quit waving it around like a madwoman. Put it back where you found it.” Instead, we have a media that seems hell bent on telling Susan to pick up the gun, put a bullet in the cylinder, turn the safety off, point it at her head and pull the trigger. Hey, she may survive and it will be thrilling!

To tell her to put the gun down and walk away would be tantamount to treating her like a toddler. That hurts feelings. That is mysoginistic. Bad husband.

In short… it’s a one-sided, manipulative, short-sighted, hedonistic and unrealistic ploy for women to have their cake and eat it too. She wants the comfort and familiarity of the Provider while testing the waters with a new Lover. I’ve personally never seen it work in the long-term. It usually ends with the woman becoming bonded to her new Lover and detaching from her Provider husband. Much like the reader who commented on the original post I made. 

“One day she came home just like you say. Crying. She fell in love. She couldn’t help it. So… that means we can’t still be married? Isn’t this an open marriage? No, because he doesn’t believe in open marriages. So she needed to divorce and be with him.”

Suggested Reading

Borderline Personality Disorder

If I had to summarize my Dad Starting Over world in 2018 (as far as my readers’ stories and online postings are concerned), I could whittle it down to two things:

  1. “My wife wants an open marriage.”
  2. “My wife has Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).”

#1, Open Marriages, is a predictable and rapidly-growing social trend. It can easily be remedied if every man simply said, “No. We should divorce instead.” Enforcing boundaries and knowing when to walk away from these situations would help to put an end to the trend.

#2, BPD, is an unfortunate reality that will become more and more common as the rate of broken homes, childhood abuse and absent father figures goes up.  The bad news is that there is no cure for a woman with BPD.

BPD falls under the category of Cluster B personality disorders. People with Cluster B disorders are characterized by their “Overly emotional and unpredictable thoughts and behavior”. Other disorders that fall under the category of Cluster B include Antisocial Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Of all the Cluster B disorders, BPD is probably the most widely studied. We know, in general, what causes it. We know that it usually begins with childhood trauma that leads to extreme fear of abandonment (in addition to possible genetic factors – like if mom was BPD). We know how these fears manifest themselves later in life.

We also know that they are VERY broken human beings that should be avoided at all costs.

COMMON BPD BEHAVIOR

BPD behavior is pretty damn obvious. As far as the BPD wife is concerned, it typically manifests itself in the following ways:

1. LOVE BOMBING

When that initial infatuation/falling in love/“I must procreate with this man” stage hits, it hits her hard. Really hard. She will do anything and everything to be with this man. She will shower him with praise. She will buy him things. She will submit to any and all sexual needs the man may have. She will lose weight. She will dress seductively. She will text or call incessently. For a man with little dating experience and/or feelings of low self-esteem , this is absolutely the most amazing feeling ever. This HAS to mean she is “the one”, right?!

“I just knew she was the one from the first day we met.” I’ve heard this more than a few times from my readers who have BPD wives.

All men want a woman who love bombs them. It’s our dream. But when in the middle of an extreme BPD love bomb, what should be obvious warning signs of way-too-early and extreme attachment are drowned out by all the fantastic positive emotions we men feel (and the fantastic porn sex, of course).

“When wearing rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.”

2. EXTREME JEALOUSY

The BPD woman is extremely threatened by the emotional connections you make with others. This could be your attachment to your children, your coworkers, your platonic friends, your ex-girlfriends, etc. She will do all she can to separate you physically and emotionally from these people. She must eliminate all competition for her attention.

Her brain: “Stop all these other relationships! He’s going to leave you!”

3. MORPHING

Women are naturally more agreeable and pliable than men. We all know the woman who takes on the personality traits, hobbies and interests of her new boyfriend. She didn’t used to like football, now all of a sudden she’s wearing a Bengals jersey and yelling at the TV during Monday Night Football.

The BPD woman takes this to the next level. She doesn’t have that filter or boundary mechanism that says “Oh, I like you and all… but I’m not doing THAT.” Instead, she will gladly put on the football jersey, snort the cocaine, pop the pills, get the tattoo, get the boob job, join the orgy, and ignore her kids for weeks at a time.  This is all in an effort to keep the new man around.

4. SPLITTING

What was once the best thing in the entire universe is now the equivalent of dog shit on the bottom of her shoe. This sudden change in thought, or “splitting”, can seem to happen suddenly with no warning. Then, the dog shit goes back to being fantastic again… but only briefly. Then it’s back to being awful again.

Usually that piece of dog shit is the unsuspecting male partner in her life. The husband or boyfriend she was once infatuated with becomes a laughable loser when she meets and bonds with a new man.

Again, this is common cheating woman behavior. Where the BPD woman takes it a step further is that she goes WAY BEYOND indifference towards her ex, and has to actively try to destroy him. She will reach out to her social circle to ruin his name. She may try to physically harm him or get others to do it. She may take all his money. She will randomly send him messages reminding him of just how worthless he is. She will tell the kids how awful he is. She will outright lie about him to anyone he cares about.

She won’t stop until he is completely destroyed.

She’s getting back at him for “abandoning” her. It doesn’t matter that SHE cheated and broke up with him and attached to another man. In her reptilian brain, she was abandoned by her ex. He failed to play the role she needed. He must pay the price.

There is no grey area with a BPD woman. It’s all or nothing. You’re either the second coming of Jesus or the Devil himself.

The “Oh wow, this is really fucked up” moment comes when the ex finally gets wise and decides to stop all contact with the BPD woman. That is when she is left with her acute fear of abandonment. This is when she will lash out in more anger, sadness and may even self-harm or attempt suicide. This draws the ex back in… and then the cycle continues.

5. GASLIGHTING

This is a term used when abusive people try to convince you that the red flags you are seeing are actually YOUR fault. YOU’RE the crazy/mean/cruel/abusive one. She’s the victim.

It’s never her fault. It never will be her fault. She can’t see the rational side of things because she is incapable of doing so.

This just makes the “nice guy” husband want to try even harder. After all, he made vows to this woman. For better or for worse. Maybe she has a point. That one time he did say she was acting like a bitch… he shouldn’t have done that. He can be a better husband.

She sees his groveling and attempts to fix the situation, and she grows more resentful and angry.

This form of abuse has lasting repercussions for the man and his subsequent relationships moving forward in life. He questions everything about himself and his already low self-esteem is completely flushed down the toilet.

“Maybe I AM the problem. I’m worthless.”

6. INFIDELITY

In broad terms, BPD women feel two things:

1. An intense need for love and acceptance

2. A need to engage in impulsive and risky behavior. Cheating fits in perfectly with their psyche.

You, the nice/normal guy with low self-esteem, will never be enough for the BPD woman. NOBODY will be enough for her. This is the grand irony of BPD. She is frightened to the core about the chance of abandonment by her partner, but she does everything in her power to drive him away… including abuse and actually running into the arms of another man (or multiple men). A BPD woman will often rationalize her frequent infidelities by saying, “Hey, we all know you were going to cheat on me, anyway.”

Yes, “normal” women cheat all the time. The BPD difference is that they often like to rub it in the face of the ex partner. There are stories of women sending photos of them engaging in sex with their new man, sharing graphic details, explaining how the new partner is physically better/more endowed, etc. This is just part of the “must punish the old partner for not doing what he was supposed to” pathology. Whatever she can do to chip away at the confidence and happiness of the ex partner, she will do.

WHY IT’S SO HARD TO BREAK FREE

Let’s just get one obvious but uncomfortable observation out of the way: Borderline behavior seems to be “typical” female behavior amplified about a million times. It is true that an estimated 80% of BPD sufferers are female. This isn’t a condemnation of women. This isn’t “Haha… all women are crazy!” This is just recognizing that men and women are different animals, and we differ in how we process psychological trauma in our lives. BPD shows us how many women (and some men) typically act out childhood trauma and fears of abandonment.

Not only is the bad “crazy” stuff amplified, but so is all the good stuff. Everything early on in the relationship is wild and turned up to eleven.

“Crazy in the head, crazy in bed.” We’ve all heard it. It’s true. For most men, the most intoxicating sexual traits in women are submissiveness and sexual openness/experimentation. BPD women will flat out do it all for you (and for the next guy). Nothing is off the table. They radiate a sexuality that most have never experienced before. They are living wet dreams. They are porn stars in real life. This is especially true early on in the relationship (pre-kids).

This level of open sexuality is completely intoxicating and addicting for many men.

Not only does she have the physical attributes covered, but she also knows the psychological buttons to push to keep you coming back for more. Early in the relationship, she gave you a taste of feeling like a king. She focused all of her attention and energy on YOU. For a guy who has probably never received this level of attention and validation, it pushes him over the top. He will paint his woman with the “perfect angel that can do no wrong” brush. Once she earns that distinction, it’s very hard for the man to put the genie back in the bottle.

Men are the hopeless romantics, after all.

More often than not, the man has very little experience with “truly crazy” female behavior. He sees red flags and moments of concern (probably in the form of oddly-timed angry outbursts and jealousy rages), but he doesn’t dare tell her to cool it out of fear of rocking the boat and losing the sexual and emotional validation buffet she’s been providing.

The combination of rewarding her for all her positives and trying to keep her negatives to a minimum means A LOT of giving and more giving from the man. She just has to say “jump” and he says “how high?!” She now has a slave.

Then it gets worse. And worse. And worse. The sex usually gets cut off. The cheating begins (or she is just no longer hiding it). The man is left feeling like a complete and total failure. His giving didn’t pay off. He seems to be punished for his unconditional love. He doubles down on his love and she pushes away even more. If he dares show signs of giving up on her, she may become suicidal.

During her more coherent/evil moments, she may actually spell out to the man the consequences for trying to leave her. She will outline how she will take his money, ruin his reputation, and physically harm him. If she fully attaches to another man, she may do all those things and more.

After years of this torture, everyone he confides in says the same thing: “Dude… why don’t you just leave?!”

He doesn’t see a way out. Not without endangering himself, his money, his children and the relationship he STILL holds out hope for.

After all, he’s worthless in his own mind. She’s probably the best he can ever do. How can he ever get a woman like HER again?

IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT

Yes, you fucked up. We’ve all been there one way or another. You learn from your mistakes and you move on. No, you didn’t cause her issues. No, you’re not responsible for her behavior. No, you can’t fix the relationship if you just [insert stupid idea here].

You fucked up because you allowed your damaged sense of self to dictate your relationship with a woman. You succumbed to your childhood baggage and allowed the absolute perfect storm of a bad human being to push your buttons. You saw flags but you didn’t act appropriately.  You just went with the flow and let the tidal wave of “love” wash you away.

You attached far too soon. You “put the pussy on a pedestal” in the absolute biggest way possible.

You can’t fix this relationship. This is just a sad and scary chapter in the big book of your life. You must learn from this and move on.

Easier said than done, I know.

Man are fixers and just can’t accept that they actually grew to love and care for such a crazy person. “Nope… this is fixable. It’s not her. It’s just her drinking, drugs, the other guy, stress from having a kid, midlife crisis, etc..”

No, dude… it’s her. Always been her. There’s zero you can do to turn this relationship around. You are not the first, nor will you be the last man to fall for the lure of the sexy but crazy woman. You just have to figure out why you stuck around so long.

What I can tell you is that EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY guy in these situations has SOME kind of baggage from their childhood that they haven’t dealt with. Lots of men just give a knee-jerk reaction when questioned. “Nope! My family life was awesome. Parents were great. No complaints!” After a lot of back and forth… “I mean, I WAS molested by my uncle and my mom was caught in an affair when I was 9…”

Be honest with yourself. Dig deep and figure out why you didn’t have the skills you needed to say, “Whoa… this is one crazy woman. Time to pull the ejection handle and get the F outta dodge!” If you don’t figure that out, I can absolutely guarantee that will be right back where you are now with a completely different woman.

In the single post-divorce world, you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting a BPD woman.

Interview With A Real Dad Starting Over – “Mario”

This is the fourth in a series of interviews with REAL dads and dudes starting over in life. From each of these stories, we can learn a great deal from each other and see that we are nowhere near alone in our quest to start over.

“Mario” is your typical “nice guy who married a mentally ill woman” story. His ex-wife was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder … and the details of their relationship leaves no doubt about that diagnosis.  What Mario hasn’t done is the hard work of emotionally separating from the intoxicating hold his ex-wife has on him, and the work of rebuilding his self-esteem and getting his life in order.

Like all addicts, he has a long road ahead of him and a lot of steps to complete before he can consider himself “cured”. This interview goes quickly into more of a “coaching” session as I soon realize this is a guy still freshly hurt and needing some guidance in a hurry. His life could very well depend on it.

DSO:
Okay, so if you could… give me a brief overview of you. Age, number of kids, are you married or divorced?

Mario:
I’m 38… divorced, 4 kids, 3 are living.
I’m a professional martial artist… I own an MMA school in Florida. In good shape, regular guy.

DSO:
Ages of kids?

Mario:
3-4-9 and would be 12.

DSO:
May I ask how your child passed?

Mario:
She had brain cancer. DIPG. My daughter Angela.

DSO:
So sorry to hear that. I can’t imagine the pain that must’ve caused. How long ago?

Mario:
That’s when I opened up my first martial arts school… after Angela was diagnosed. We needed money and we wanted freedom to do family things. 6 yrs ago. 2012.

DSO:
So let’s back way up first. Your family life as a kid. Tell me about it.

Mario:
Very close Italian family. I have 3 sisters. I’m the oldest. We come from NYC- Brooklyn and eventually moved to North Eastern Pennsylvania.

DSO:
And mom and dad always together? No divorce?

Mario:
Yes… mom and dad had an amazing marriage. Like I said very close Italian family.
Lots of fun and laughter.
Typical marriage though. Had ups and downs. Dad was a hard worker- construction. Mom was a home maker. Always there for us kids. Both supported us in everything .

DSO:
You have a lot of quality time with dad?

Mario:
Yea…we are very close. Dad was always around. Benefits of owning your own company. Still close to dad. Talk almost everyday.

DSO:
That’s great. Now, growing up… How was your luck with the girls?

Mario:
Not bad… my neighbor used to call me Baskin Robbins because she said I had a new girl every week. I won class flirt my 8th grade and senior year in school.

DSO:
So, here you are coming from a great and loving family. Good relationship with your parents. No problem with the girlfriends. And then…When did you meet your ex-wife?

Mario:
She came over from Paraguay to work as a camp counselor and when her job was done I met her at a pizzeria working with her uncle. My friend owned the restaurant. She was a model in her country and absolutely beautiful, and I was taken aback fast that she even liked me. We dated for a short time and decided let’s get married. We married before she went back to her country and we worked hard to get her back into the USA.

DSO:
But you were Mr. Ladies Man. Why would an attractive woman liking you be such a surprise?

Mario:
It’s hard to explain… I may have had “time fillers” but nothing like this. it was like the movies. The second I saw her, it’s like the heavens opened up and light shined upon her. I knew I wanted to marry her. It’s funny, I went home and told my mother that… and she would tell me ex that often. I just loved her from day 1.

DSO:
How long did you date before marriage?

Mario:
One month.

DSO:
Wow.

Mario:
Yea I know. Stupid… but she was leaving and I was 24-25 at the time and i was willing to move to Paraguay to be with her. Impulsive.

DSO:
So there was something SO powerful about this woman that caused you date her, marry her immediately and want to uproot and move to a far away land just to be with her. The power of the hoohah…

Mario:
Lol… yea I guess so. She was amazing. Funny, sexy, smart…At the time the total package.

DSO:
So she DOES end up returning home after you marry? How long is she gone for?

Mario:
2 months. I go to Paraguay like a month later and bust my butt filing paperwork to get her in the USA.

DSO:
I see. So… let’s talk more about her. What was her family like?

Mario:
Bad. Her dad kidnapped her away from her mom. They lived in the USA and while here he assumes she cheated and send her on a search for an imaginary job… while he grabs my ex and there documents and destroys moms documents and moved back to Paraguay leaving her birth mom in the USA.

Her and her birth mom have a strained relationship… badly… more like competition then mother and daughter. From what I heard it’s getting better but it has always been like that. They are good then they are bad.

DSO:
Wow. Well… this begs the question. WAS her mom cheating?

Mario:
I don’t know. Her dad cheated on her step mom all the time and step mom cheated on dad. often. In reality the whole family is built on infidelity. Dad is the product of the other woman.

DSO:
So an all around bad environment for a young kid to grow up in, it sounds like.

Mario:
100%. Dad was abusive to mom, and kids, and step mom

DSO:
Did you know all this when you married her?

Mario:
I didn’t.

DSO:
Would it have made a difference?

Mario:
I don’t know. Dad has caused a lot of problems between us. He didn’t like me because I didn’t agree with everything he said. I would speak up. I didn’t like how my ex’s family treated her and I would say so. He would come to visit my daughter when she was battling cancer but spent more time shopping then being with her. But I can’t expect a bad dad to be a good grandfather. But my ex doesn’t see anything wrong with it because he raised her.

DSO:
I see. So we can set aside her family for now and put them in the category of “beyond fucked up”.

Mario:
Yes 100%. To them, I’ve come to realize, you are disposable.

DSO:
So what does your family think of the situation when you announce you’re marrying this young foreign gal you met a month ago?

Mario:
My dad thought I was crazy. My mom loves everything about it. My mom just wants to see me happy. I married her… and my family took some time getting used to her, but dad took the biggest shine. He loved her. Still does… but is so hurt about us. He won’t say it… but I know it. He absolutely loved her.

DSO:
Ok. So… you are married. You run off to another country to bring home your bride for good. You eventually are both back in the states. How long before baby 1 comes along?

Mario:
When she came back we found out she was pregnant.

DSO:
Not wasting any time!

Mario:
Nope…Chemistry is a bitch. Lol.

DSO:
When do the wheels start to fall off the relationship? When do things start to get a little squirrelly?

Mario:
We lived regular lives. Ups and Downs. She accuses me of cheating 7 times and I never cheated on my wife. I assume either she was or wanted to.

DSO:
At the time you were thinking she was cheating or wanted to… or you were in the dark then?

Mario:
She pushes her insecurities off on me. She gained weight from the kids and from stress from Angela. I just thought she was being a pain in the ass. I never thought she would cheat. Nor did I ever have plans of cheating.

DSO:
So extreme bouts of jealousy. What other red flags did you see?

Mario:
After my last daughter was born she was weighing like 230-240 lbs.

DSO:
Oh wow.

Mario:
Always jealousy.

DSO:
So a completely different human after the kids.

Mario:
Yes. Hard to explain. I supported this women in everything. She wanted Hawaii trips. I did it. Cruises. I did it. Trip to Paraguay. Did it. She truly didn’t want for anything. Business idea that she wants. Hobbies that I would support.

DSO:
Sounds like you were quite the YES man. Did you ever turn her down for anything?

Mario:
Of course…

DSO:
How did she deal with rejection?

Mario:
Depends on what it was. She would normally deal with it fine from the outside. It seemed like that. But I wanted her happy… I loved her. Happy wife, happy life bullshit.

DSO:
Did you ever express your displeasure with her weight gain?

Mario:
Never. She would get mad and call me fat piece of shit, because we both gained weight. I would never call her fat or call her names. That’s the part that hurts also. I supported her and loved her when she was 260 lbs at her heaviest with a shaved head to support my daughter.

DSO:
So here’s a woman who you saved from an awful family life, brought to the states, gave her everything she wanted, watched her balloon to 260 lbs, never bad-mouthed her, supported her in everything.

Mario:
Yes.

DSO:
So you set aside all of the “shallow” superficial stuff because you loved her and were her husband.

Mario:
Yep. My mom was heavy. It’s like saying you won’t love the women who sacrificed her body to give you kids. There is no better way for a women to show she loves you then to give you children.

DSO:
So, she has the gastric bypass surgery, right?

Mario:
Yes.

DSO:
How much did she lose?

Mario:
Not sure she continued to lose after she left me. From what I heard she went down to 132.

DSO:
So she lost a bunch of weight and then what happened?

Mario:
Well while she was losing, she accuses me of cheating… meanwhile I wasn’t. I promise. I wanted to start a women’s BJJ class at my school and I found an instructor. And my ex hated it. Accused me of cheating so I never followed through with it. I’d rather her be happy. Now that woman teaches at another school and the class is huge. So I lost out on money.

Well, after that.. she starts going out with friends more. Staying out later. I was never jealous… I supported her. One day we get into a big argument and she tells me to leave so I go to my gym. While at my gym… for some reason I feel the need to log into her Facebook. I felt like something is up.

DSO:
This sounds familiar

Mario:
And boom I find her messaging with some guy. I died. I go home confront her on it… say I’m gonna fight for my wife. I’m a fighter and I’m gonna fight for my wife. Well that’s when she tells me… there is another guy who she has a crush on. As I write this my heart is beating like crazy. I’m sweating. Still upsets me.

DSO:
Well it was a very traumatic moment, I’m sure.

Mario:
I tell her to end it with this guy. And according to her she does. Me being a man I say I’m gonna kick his ass and this and that. She reaches out to him again.. telling him to ignore me. I’m even more pissed. But now… my “not good enough” insecurities come up… the why him and not me shit pops up. So now I’m jealous, insecure, controlling.

DSO:
All normal under the circumstances.

Mario:
Where you going, who you talking to? I fucked myself. I should’ve been cool. She asked me to be cool. But I was heart broken.

DSO:
How did you “fuck yourself”?

Mario:
She told me she met these guys at the bank where she works…And I said well what happens if they come back. She said she will ignore them. I was still unsure. She then told me she lied and didn’t meet them at the bank she met them at a club. I didn’t want her to go back to that club. She then changed it and said she met them at the bank again.

DSO:
So let’s stop for a moment and summarize this. Your ex was having affairs during your marriage. Probably early on… most definitely after the gastric bypass surgery.You find out, and you naturally go into “must save this marriage” mode.

Mario:
Not sure about affairs during… possible… but to her they weren’t affairs. I’ll get to that part.

DSO:
No no… stop

Mario:
Ok.

DSO:
We’re not going to go down that road. That was me guessing when I say “affairs during your marriage”… because that is most likely true.

Mario:
Well she met them on a dating app… match.com and there where like 6 more guys she was talking to. But never met them in person.

DSO:
So, let’s cut the BS about what she thinks and feels about the whole thing and just get to the meat of the issue. She sure liked having sex with other men outside of her marriage, and she got caught.

Mario:
While we tried working it out I was convinced into paying for tummy tuck and breast lift thinking it was a gift for me. She left me before it was healed.

DSO:
Oh boy. Let me just stop you here. You realize you lived out a perfect storm of the most stereotypical “wife cheated” stories all rolled into one? Your story is not unique AT ALL. I am nodding my head hearing your story because I saw some of this myself.

Mario:
Well that’s good to hear cause I feel like a complete loser.

DSO:
LOL… nope. You’re not even close to a loser. Your story is textbook.

Mario:
I would’ve never thought she would do this.

DSO:
Of course not, because you were in love.

Mario:
She is ruthless to me.

DSO:
Of course… was she diagnosed as having Borderline Personality Disorder?

Mario:
Yes.

DSO:
Well, there you go. You’re dealing with a mentally ill person.

Mario:
I know… it’s sad. She acts like I caused all this. She tries to hurt me at every twist and turn.

DSO:
Unfortunately her mental illness is one that manifests itself exactly how you are seeing it. Promiscuous sexual behavior, infidelity, lying, gaslighting, playing victim, fear of abandonment, etc. The bad news is that there is zero way you or anyone can fix her. The even worse news is that this is probably going to get worse before it gets better.

Mario:
I had to drop something off for her the other day… and while there her garbage was spilling out and she asked if I could get it. And boom a condom in it… I said no. And she made a joke… “Well at least you know I’m protecting myself!”

DSO:
Okay, so… here’s the awful truth. She’s a monster. She found in you the perfect victim: A “nice” guy who has a history of rolling over for her and doing what she wants, when she wants.

Mario:
I know.

DSO:
So she’s going to keep milking this cow until you literally die. You have to get away from this woman. You HAVE to. I know, this is easy for me to say as somebody outside of the relationship. But several years from now when the smoke clears you’re going to look back and say “WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?!”

Mario:
I separated myself from her… this week. I decided I can’t feel bad anymore. I chased after her for 11 months and nothing I have done made her love me again.

DSO:
Of course not… that’s now how all this works. Even if she wasn’t mentally ill, it wouldn’t work.

Mario:
So even when I separated myself she sent me 7 minutes of harassing texts yesterday calling me names.

DSO:
So, now this mentally ill woman with more baggage than LaGuardia has tried her damndest to ruin you. She sucked you dry of your time, love and resources. She has since detached and moved on to the next victim(s). Now what?

Mario:
Like i still love my ex and in a perfect world we would be able to work it out. But she caused a lot of pain.

DSO:
Stop it. You’re not allowed to talk that way when we’re chatting. It gets you exactly nowhere. So now what?

Mario:
I have reached out to some friends that aren’t in this state… Don’t have many friends in Florida. And I am having them keep me accountable. Helping me. I am setting up new hobbies and things I’m interested in. Keep myself so busy I have no time for her.

DSO:
That’s awesome. You and I briefly talked before on Facebook, and I suggested you make a to-do list. Have you done that?

Mario:
I haven’t.

DSO:
Ok, let’s put this into terms you can understand. You’re a fighter, right? MMA?

Mario:
Yes.

DSO:
So, you’re in a fight and I guy jumps on your back. You don’t even think. You just know from years of fighting, “Okay, pivot my hips, rotate, move my feet, change the center of gravity, blam… now I’m on top.”

Mario:
Yep.

DSO:
Those are a series of steps. Right now, keeping with the fighting analogy, you’re lying on the ground on your back while they guy is pounding away at your face…. “Oh well, this sucks.” You gotta put your guard up. Make the next step. And then the next. And the next.

Mario:
Yea…

DSO:
It’s all about momentum. You HAVE to get going.

Mario:
Just since it all… I have suffered bad insecurities, and shit.

DSO:
What you’re saying: “I would put my guard up… but my face really hurts and I think he broke my rib.”

How involved are you in your kids’ lives? See them often?

Mario:
I see them every day for about an hour and a half before mom picks them up at my mma school, plus every Wednesday and every other weekend. I wanted 50/50 but she fought me on it.

DSO:
You think your kids enjoy seeing you depressed?

Mario:
Not at all. My son Michael is my best friend and he cries everyday about it. And how he hears guys come over at night. He told her one time that he wants to live with me… and then she refused to buy him sneakers.

DSO:
Right now you’re showing Michael, “Women can ruin you… no matter what you do… they ruin you.” He sees the negative on mom’s side… then comes to dad and sees more negativity.

Mario:
You’re right.

DSO:
I think step 1 is attorney. Find out about getting more time with kids, building the case against mom.

Mario:
I spoke to my son about it the other day that he and I are gonna heal each other and help and live a great life together.

DSO:
How old is he?

Mario:
9

DSO:
Well, you run the risk of involving him too much and him being your buddy, instead of being your son. He needs that strong father figure that is there and powerful no matter what. Not the guy saying, “My life sucks right now and let me tell you why.”

Mario:
I try try to be both… I feel like he needs that. I never tell him my life sucks. I tell him that I’m hurt by his mom actions.

DSO:
Nope. Gotta leave mom out of it. Never bad mouth mom. He’s a kid… he can’t process it. He just internalizes it. “Mom is a whore… mom is bad… I came from mom… I must be bad.” Then the cycle continues. You are strong dad. You don’t emote to your son or go blaming others. You show him how to be strong.

Mario:
Ok

DSO:
So this has turned into a coaching session versus an interview! But your story is not unique. Don’t get bogged down in details of what she did, how she thinks, etc. She’s broken. Very very broken. There’s nothing you can do. That chapter is closed. And when you look back at the chapter it will be titled “Hot latina chick who got fat, was never happy, treated me like shit and ended up cheating on me and then continued treating me like shit.”

Mario:
I’m afraid it will affect my kids. For me it’s closed… what is she teaching my daughter and my sons that it’s ok for men to use women.

DSO:
Yes, they need to be in therapy, and they need a strong parent, or this will just continue on for generations. And YOU need to be chatting with somebody regularly. Preferably a man.

Mario:
Ok. I’ve got to check. Either find a therapist I can pay cash or get insurance.

DSO:
Yeah, step 2: insurance.

Just string together 7 good days. It’s exactly like quitting drugs or alcohol. One day at a time. Then a month at a time. Then years.

Mario:
Yes sir. That’s the goal.

DSO:
AND STAY AWAY FROM WOMEN.

Mario:
I have a lot of ideas to keep myself busy and hopefully good friends to keep me accountable. Not interested right now in dating. Got to get my head right.

DSO:
So you have some basic foundational stuff… attorney… insurance… job situation ok? Get that basic stuff squared away, then the hard stuff.

Alright, it was nice chatting! Keep in touch. I do offer coaching sessions for $$… but I think you should pursue the “Real” therapist avenue through insurance first.

Mario:
Most definitely… thanks for listening. I just need to get insurance first or find one with cash.

DSO:
I’m sure they will all gladly take your cash!

A Look Inside The Mind of a Cheating Wife Who Filed For Divorce

A woman recently posted a very candid and honest story on the “Divorce” section of the super popular website Reddit. In the post, she outlines the conditions that led her to question her marriage and eventually have an affair. This coeherent chronological breakdown gives us a rare and unfiltered look at what goes on in the mind of a cheating spouse. I thought it would be interesting to break her story down into pieces and give my thoughts as the story unfolds.

In my case there was no abuse. We were together for 8 years that was mostly good and we have 4 kids. Right around 5 years I got a promotion at work and i got it in my head that my XH was dragging me down, or at least holding me back from more success and a better life. We never had a lot of money but with my promotion I was now making more than he was.

I can’t tell you how many times I have heard this scenario. There is a reason she started her story with her job promotion. This was the switch. So many infidelity stories start with some “switch” that breaks down the cheaters boundaries and gets the cheating machine whirring along. For many women, the simple act of making more money than her spouse starts the process. Why? Because her respect for her spouse just took a major hit. She WANTS to look up to him. She WANTS to brag on him. She WANTS to be able to see him as the super lover-provider combination that every woman dreams about. Since he’s a husband and a dad, his Lover qualities probably went out the window long ago. He was a Provider… now he’s not. What’s he left with? Nothing, other than an angry wife who grows resentful.

There is a phenomenon known as “hypergamy”. The terms refers to the trend of women marrying across or UP their social food chain. Women CEO’s tend to not marry garbage men, in other words. The opposite tends to not be the case for men. The male CEO will gladly marry the secretary, school teacher or cashier.

Before everyone writes me with, “Nuh uh! I’m a stay-at-home dad and my wife is a doctor and we’ve been married for a million years!” … Great. That’s awesome. I wish you were the norm. You’re not. You’re an outlier.

Back to the story…

I started working longer hours and at the same time his hours were cut so he was at home more. I really began to resent him because he was home and because he got to spend time with our kids. Most nights when I got home they were already getting ready for bed if not already sleeping. After a few months of my new job it was clear to me that things were not going well at home without me there. Some nights the dishes weren’t done when I got home or the kids hadn’t eaten or whatever else I could think of to be mad at him about. It really didn’t matter. He kept saying that he would try harder but that it was hard being home all the time. That always made me really mad.

She’s jealous. She’s angry. She is not happy being Mrs. Breadwinner. It creates a great deal of resentment in her. THIS is not what she envisioned when married. She points out that the house is not clean enough… but the truth is there’s nothing he could do to make her happy in this situation. Absolutely nothing. It’s over at this point.

For the next couple years things kept getting worse. My hours weren’t any shorter and his were on and off fulltime. There was no convenient time for him to be working full time because of my hours, but we also needed the money. Whenever he would tell me that he could get extra hours I would always complain and the less hours he worked the more I complained that he wasnt bringing in enough money. Whenever he brought up the contradiction I would tell him that he needed to figure it out. I knew that it would bother him so I started saying that a lot and for everything that I could.

Here is where she starts bluntly pushing him away. There is zero he can do to make her happy. She’s not going to tell him, “There is nothing you can do to make me happy, so just divorce me already.”  She is following the common cheating wife pattern of treating the husband with such disrespect that she actually gets more angry if he doesn’t stand up to her and divorce her (as she wants).

I really started to resent him and I pulled away from him. I knew that it was hurting him but I didnt care. If he didnt want to be hurt then he would at least try to make me happy. I used that same thing to justify when I started to talk to another guy at work. I thought he was just a friend but talking at work turned into texting at home and then pictures and videos and then trying to sneak some alone time with him. I knew that it was wrong but it made me feel so alive, and my husband had not made me feel like that in years. I was tired of being unhappy and I was doing this for me.

And here it begins. Didn’t take long. The “Must find new and better mate to procreate with” programming is off and running. The rationalizations come out in full force. I was doing this for me.”

The worst was the night that I came home at a reasonable time and found that he had cleaned the whole house, cooked the whole family dinner and picked out a movie for all of us to watch together. This would have made me swoon a couple years earlier, but that night I couldn’t even look at him and I pretended to be sick. I spent the rest of the night in bed while he waited on me and checked on me and even made me different food and brought it to me in bed. It made me feel terrible, and then it made me angry that he made me feel that way and by the end of the night I was texting with the other guy.

See? There’s absolutely nothing he could do to stop the machine from running. Nothing. This is why reconciliation and trying to “win” your wife back is so fruitless. He would be much better off if he got a head start and began the process of self-care and rebuilding. He’s wasting months and years he can’t get back.

Over the next month or two from that night it did not matter what he did. He was wrong just for breathing most days. He would get so upset with how I was treating him and I would just wait and egg him on into losing it because i knew it would happen eventually. After most of the fights we had he would apologize for whatever I told him he did wrong if there even was something, but I never did. I would usually find a way to make him feel even worse. I knew that I was right because he was wrong and that was all that mattered to me.

She’s pushing and pushing and pushing him away. This is the equivalent of kicking him in the balls and hating him for wincing in pain. She will do so until he either dies or comes to his senses.

I even pretended that I didn’t care when he found out about my relationship with the guy from work. It really destroyed me inside to see him holding back tears, but I wasnt going to let him see that. He was at his weakest and that was when I chose to tell him that I wanted a divorce. I could almost hear his heart shattering inside his chest. He talked and fought and said that we could work through it together. I really wasnt interested in fixing our marriage, but i mostly ended things with the other guy but only because i knew i could get it back if I wanted it.

The brutal coldness of the cheating wife is always astounding. In her mind, there is no human lower than the man she has deemed as, “No longer worthy of being my partner”. Their history together means absolutely nothing.

I could see that he was trying and occasionally i would let him know, but for the most part I kept being a huge bitch to him for any and all reasons that I could think of. I’m not sure how much more the man could have done to make me happy besides finding a job that paid enough for me to not have to work at all. He said that he was looking, but looking and finding are 2 different things. It was around this time that I discovered this group and a few others. I started posting things about him, from my perspective only, and I got so much positive feedback for how I was feeling that I knew I was right. The more I posted the more validation that I got. It wasn’t just me who knew that XH wasn’t worth keeping around. I had the whole internet telling me how terrible he is. I started saying awful things to him and even outright ignoring him. I was so confident with mine and everyone elses opinion that I contacted a lawyer and within a couple weeks had filed for divorce. I continued to use this site and a couple others to validate my feelings and for encouragement to go through with it, and finally it was done.

For the cheating wife, there is no shortage of validation and “You go girl!” sentiment from her friends and strangers on the internet. She can do no wrong. This drives the husband completely crazy. It’s just human nature.

It went pretty smoothly. XH didnt ask for much besides to not get divorced and to try to work it all out. I didnt care about that though. He was broken, but I was free. I could do whatever I wanted without having to feel any guilt or answer to anybody. It was an amazing feeling of freedom. It didnt last long though. In the first month after he moved out I missed garbage day 3 times. There was also rarely a single clean dish and the laundry sat in piles so long that I had to start doing the sniff test to see if it could be worn again. I also never saw my kids more miserable. My oldest had seen some of the messages from the other guy months earlier and she knew that XH still wanted to try to work it out. It didnt take her long to stop talking to me at all except to say that she wanted to go to XH house. The others all told me that they wanted to live with XH too. I did my best to try to make them happy, but I ended up just buying them toys all the time and the happiness only lasted minutes. I also was having a lot of trouble with work. Being alone I couldnt work all those extra hours that I was expected to. I finally gave in and starting calling XH to watch the kids. He would always come over as soon as he could and he always asked me if i needed anything. When I would get home I would find clean dishes and laundry and even dinner sometimes. He would never say too much after I got home. He would just say to call him if i needed anything and leave. One night he took out the garbage and brought it to the curb because it was garbage night and I forgot again. He always looked so sad when it was time to go.

Oh, God. This poor guy. This is a conditioned man. He’s been kicked in the balls and spat on for so long… and yet he still believes she is his one true love. Can you blame him? He’s been told his whole life that this is the ONE thing he was to live for. In his mind, he failed. He failed at providing and maintaining a relationship. Everyone in the world is telling her she’s “the bomb”.In his mind, everyone seems to be conspiring to tell him how worthless he is. He has to improve and NICE his way out of this… otherwise he is in fact the scum everyone is making him out to be.

Finally after a couple months my friends convinced me to go out on a date. It was for dinner and a movie and I was excited and hopeful, but at dinner I started getting a feeling of overwhelming guilt. It got so bad that I ended up not even going to the movie. A week and about a million tears later I was on a therapists couch. I told her everything that had happened starting with the promotion that I got at work. She did not agree with me or with any of the encouragment to divorce that I got. I ended up in her office 2 and sometimes 3 times a week, and the more that I talked to prove that I was right, the more that I started to see how wrong I was. It was truely heartbreaking. I dont know if I cried as much in my whole life as i did in the first month in her office.

I had a therapist tell me once, “I can’t tell you how many times cheating wives have cried on that couch telling me that they couldn’t believe what they did… that they were acting completely out of control. Those same women were the ones that ended up doing it again and again.”

After about 2 thousand dollars of therapy sessions I learned that my XH had his faults, but I figured out that mine were so much worse. I did so many awful things and said awful things that I wouldnt want to be with me, but he did. I still remember him asking me in the meeting with the lawyer to please not go through with it. I did go through with it though, and then later I bragged on here how great it felt. I was so wrong, and now I can see it.

It took $2k of therapy to elicit feelings of empathy. This is not a good thing.

A couple weeks ago I went outside with him when he was leaving the house. I asked him about getting back together. When he looked at me his eyes were full of tears and a couple went down his cheeks. He told me that he didnt know if he could. He said that the pain has been too much for too long and that if we got back together that I might just turn around and do it to him again. He said that he always thought that I would realize how much he loved me and stop up until i signed the divorce papers and let out a big over exaggerated sigh of relief. He said that hurt him more than anything else and that he doesnt know if he can ever trust me again. I dont blame him. I destroyed a man who looking back was a great husband. I deprived my kids of having a great father in the house with them and I took his kids away from him. And me, the one who pushed for the divorce expecting happiness and a life of freedom, spend all my free time sitting at home or sitting on a therapists couch.

Good for him. He’s right. There’s no way he can take her back… because he’s not sure if he can survive another heartbreak, and he knows it won’t be the only time she has feelings of doubt and ends up cheating again.

It’s in her nature. She’s a cheating wife.

Interview With A Real Dad Starting Over – “William”

This is the second in a series of interviews with REAL dads and dudes starting over in life. From each of these stories, we can learn a great deal from each other and see that we are nowhere near alone in our quest to start over.

“William” is the an example of a VERY common scenario:

  1. Little experience with women before or after his ex-wives.
  2. Comes from a broken home with an absent father figure and strong attachment to mom.
  3. Strongly attracted to women from broken families, histories of abuse and has an intense need to help them.
  4. His kind/pushover nature eventually backfires on him as he is taken advantage of the worst way by predatory women.

DSO
So, if you could, tell us your name, age, number of kids

William
William. Age 48. I have three biological children and then two who are bonus children.

DSO
Bonus children… step kids?

William
One former stepson who I am still close to and one who I discovered was not mine, but am also close to.

DSO
Oh wow. Sounds like you do have a story to tell. And what ages are the kids?

William
30, 28, 27, 24, 23. The 30, 27, and 23 year olds are mine. Yes, it’s quite a story. 23 year old is the only girl.

DSO
That poor girl! That’s a whole lot of testosterone. Married how many times?

William
Twice. Quite a story with both.

DSO
Well let’s go with ex #1, how did you two meet?

William
We met in high school. I was a basketball player and she was a track/basketball athlete. She asked me for a ride home from practice every day and one thing led to another. The 30 year old son was born my senior year.

DSO
Started early! And how about her family life? Broken family? Abuse?

William
Her parents divorced due to her father’s infidelity. There were rumors of abuse between her father and her sister, but it never went anywhere. None between my ex and her father that I’m aware of.

DSO
And your family life?

William
My dad was an abusive alcoholic to my mom. I witnessed a lot of it. They divorced when I was six. I was not abused, but I have heard rumors that my older sister was. We’ve never discussed it. We are very close though. My mom is a saint.

DSO
Looking back on the early “courtship”, did you feel a bond with your shared family “issues”?

William
Not on a conscience level I don’t think.

DSO
So senior year, your son is born. How do you cope with that? Family help?

William
Yes. I quit basketball and started sacking groceries full time. I stayed at my ex’s house and got up with the baby on weekends. My mom and my stepdad were upset at first, but extremely helpful financially and emotionally. I got a job out of high school working in the billing office at a hospital and things went okay for several years.

DSO
College?

William
I took night courses at the local Junior college. Got my Associates degree in four years. Started at the University level about the time the first marriage fell apart.

DSO
So, “went okay for several years”, when did the wheels start to fall off?

William
We were married for five years. I came home one night after running in to my childhood sweetheart at a convenience store. I came home and told my wife about it. Shortly after that she insisted that we move. We did. As it turned it we were living caddy corner from her boyfriend’s apartment. At the time, I had no suspicion that anything was going on.

DSO
Oh, so the prompting for the move, in your mind at that time, was your surprise meeting with the childhood sweetheart?

William
Yes and no. I feel she used that as a justification in her mind, but she was already planning to set herself up with Plan B (him) in case Plan A (me) didn’t work out.

DSO
She was already in the middle of an affair with Plan B by that time… and for how long at that point (the move)?

William
I feel that it had been going on for several months before the move, but I have no proof. The fact that we moved in so close to his place was not a coincidence in my mind.

DSO
Oh… so not only did she want to move, but she had the specific place already picked out… right across from Plan B. Gotcha.

William
Yes. Again, just a theory.

DSO
Well that was ballsy of her. So when did you discover the affair?

William
After the move, she insisted we should separate. I moved in with my mom with the idea that we would work it out. She would give me no reason for the separation, just needed “space”. I went back to our place and discovered a note to him on the door. I don’t remember what it said, but the implications were clear. I started moving my stuff out that night.

DSO
Sorry to hear that… and pretty textbook. So now you have a son and a cheating wife. Was divorce pretty soon after?

William
Oh that’s where it gets crazy. We had two sons at that time. She came to me a week after I moved out and told me she was pregnant. I told her I thought it wasn’t mine. The state of Oklahoma would not allow me to divorce her while she was pregnant. They also told me that I not only had to prove the baby was not mine, but I also had to prove whose the baby was or I would be held financially responsible for it. I was not allowed to divorce her because the baby had to remain a product of the marriage in case the true father was not found.

DSO
Oh, no way. Wow. Are the laws still the same to this day in OK?

William
It took a year and a half for all the prelim crap to get done and the divorce to be granted.
I don’t know. I live in Colorado now and haven’t been married for 16 years. Doubt I ever will again.

DSO
So eventually you prove the child is not yours AND you find the father?

William
Yes. It didn’t take too much detective work on my part.

DSO
I know I’m getting into specifics here… but this whole “state forcing the non-father to pay” thing always amazes me…. What was the process for proving the paternity? Did the suspected father have to go through testing? Or did he/they just confess?

William
I had to subpoena the blood from the baby as well as the suspected father. The fact that she was able to just keep the truth to herself and hope for the best has always stuck a burr in my saddle. She was not asked to testify or anything.

DSO
She knew she had the state on her side. Okay, so… two bio kids, one that is with her lover, and you are divorced. Does kid #3 have a relationship with bio dad?

William
Yes, but he always came over to my house with his brothers. Birthday parties, sleep overs, etc. He is currently getting his PhD and will be married in May. I’m invited to the wedding. He says his father is a 50/50 bet on whether he will show up.

DSO
Well, good for you and him both. Sticking with wife #1 for now. Looking back… any red flags through the short relationship?

William
Yes. She was my first, but she was known to have slept with a lot of boys in high school. I had some friends who warned me about her, but I didn’t listen.

DSO
You’re not the first and certainly not the last with that story. If you didn’t get her pregnant while in high school, would you have married her?

William
Her best friend got pregnant about the same time she did too. I think that was part of the plan.

Definitely not. I was trying to “do the right thing”. I wish I’d have been told by an older male role model that I didn’t have to marry her. Don’t know if it would have changed my mind, but it would have made the divorce decision come a lot faster.

DSO
And how soon after was kid #2?

William
Kid 1 was born 1987. We were married in 1988. Kid 2 was born 1991. We split up in 1993. Kid 3 (not mine) was born 1994.

DSO
Was #2 another “oops”?

William
No. He was planned. Maybe just a “trying to do the right thing” thing again. I am very close to my sons though. We have a lot of fun together.

DSO
That’s great. Did you have a fair co-parenting/custody sharing plan from the beginning?

William
Yes. But I was very busy working full time and going to college so I didn’t get to see them 50/50. That as used against me when it came time to calculate support, which makes no sense. I was doing my part when I had them.

DSO
And how has ex #1’s life gone since your split?

William
She married and divorced the guy she was sleeping with. She has just been released from the county jail and into a halfway house. Her and her new boyfriend were convicted on trafficking meth through the mail.

DSO
Wow. I’d say that’s a pretty low point in life. So how long after #1 did you meet #2?

William
I was sitting in a class in 1993 thinking about the aforementioned childhood sweetheart from before. All I knew of was where she worked, Wal-Mart. So I left class, drove to Wal-Mart and sure enough, there she was working the front. She took a break and I filled her in on my situation. She showed me evidence that her husband was physically abusing her. I told her that I didn’t want to wreck her marriage, but that if they broke up, I would like to give us a try. We began an affair, and she became pregnant with my daughter. There was and is no doubt that the child was/is mine.

So I guess it was only a matter of three months or so.

DSO
Wow. You weren’t wasting any time. Ran right into the arms of another broken one. Also not uncommon.

William
Haha. Oh ya.

DSO
So, the first red flag is obviously “I was abused” and “I am willing to have an affair and get pregnant”… what other red flags did gal #2 have? How about her family life?

William
Her mother was a mean bitch. I remembered it from my childhood. Nothing had changed in the years that followed. She was a tom boy and an athlete from the time we met, age 13, all the way through high school. She actually told me after she divorce her first husband that she never wanted to marry again. I was so happy we were together that I didn’t mind. We were living together and we had a daughter. My two sons, my bonus son, and her son were with us most of the time once I finished college. We were making the blended family work. She never initiated sex though. I thought she was submissive, but as it turned out she was hiding a deeper secret. Queue suspenseful music…

DSO
So… in hindsight do you feel she grasped onto you as a way out of marriage #1?

William
Yes. I also feel that she knew she could get away with what she had planned next because of what had happened in my previous marriage. I may be paranoid, but that doesn’t make me wrong.

DSO
So, she gets pregnant… how long after did you marry?

William
She approached me two years later in 1997 and asked, “Why haven’t you asked me to marry you?” and I said, “Because you said you didn’t want to get married.” and she said, “Well, we might as well. I mean, look at all these kids in our house.” and I said, “Okay”. Shortly after, I called the kids into the living room and I proposed to her. We eloped to Colorado and were married on Christmas Eve, 1997 in Aspen.

DSO
And after marriage… how long until the big bomb drop?

William
June, 2003 she told me she was leaving me. She didn’t say why at the time. We had just made our first payment on a new house.

DSO
Wow. What was the process after that? Did you start investigating?

William
I take that back. She told me she was leaving in April and the truth about why came out in June.

I helped her move into her own apartment. I told the landlord I needed a key since I was on the lease. When she took her son to the movies one night, I went to her apartment and found a journal. In it, she confessed her love to her new girlfriend who lived two states away and she revealed her plan to move there as soon as she could.

DSO
Wow.

William
It was shortly after that she admitted she was gay. She never told me of her intention to move. She intended to abandon us.

DSO
You were helping her move into an apartment that she planned on leaving soon?

William
Yes.

DSO
And her plan was to leave you and the kid?

William
Yes. and my stepson with his father.

DSO
Oh wow. How did she meet the girlfriend?

William
Work. The GF had moved away in order to prevent wrecking our marriage, or so the story goes.

DSO
I see. Did the wife later admit she always KNEW she was gay, or this was something she discovered later in life?

William
She said that she had always known she was gay. She said no man was ever going to touch her again and that her whole life had been a lie. She was celebrated for now “living her truth”. The fact that she had discovered it at the expense of so many lives was swept under the rug.

Maybe not discovered it, but verified it. Found the courage to admit it to herself. However you look at it.

DSO
And she has remained in the new lifestyle since then?

William
Yes. She has a GF now that she met when she was 45 and the GF was 17. Also something for which she has never been held accountable.

DSO
WOW. Well, this is usually the case in these relationship dramas. The damsels in distress will get the adulation… You’ll just go crazy trying to understand it.
So, how soon after the bomb drop did you divorce?

William
It took four and a half years. When I would go to court, the judge would give her additional time to appear even though she had left the state. Once I got Oklahoma DHS to start garnishing her paycheck for child support did she finally show up and the divorce was granted. She also got custody arrangements changed and once she paid her back child support, I had to start paying her. I raised my daughter for five years without help from her and then she came in and got what she wanted.

She moved back to Oklahoma and started playing “supermom”

DSO
Wow. That seems to be the them for this story: “Wow” She moved back to OK… and the kids went to live with her?

William
Haha. I’m 16 years out and I still can’t believe it.

By the time she came back, my daughter was 13. She wanted to know her mom and asked if it was okay if she lived with her. I helped my daughter move. There’s nothing I wouldn’t do for her. it is a fact that if not for her, I wouldn’t be alive. We are very close today. So part of what the gay ex got was what I allowed her to have for the sake of my daughter.

DSO
And she stayed with her for all of her teens?

William
Yes. But again, I would meet her for breakfast before school and I would have her and her friends over when she wanted. My gay ex knew I would do anything for my daughter too, which of course she used to her advantage.

DSO
And her relationship with your daughter today?

William
They are good. One year after I left OK for CO, my daughter followed me though. All of my biological children have left OK and moved closer to me, much to their mothers’ dismay I’m sure.

My daughter and her mother visit occasionally. I have no contact with her mother. We haven’t spoken in years.

DSO
So after the second divorce… have you had any relationships? Dating?

William
My first relationship after the gay ex (both wives were my first and second) I had an affair with the minister’s wife. She divorced her husband to marry me, but I told her I wasn’t going to marry again. That ended our relationship poorly. Had a GF for about three months in 2007 or so. She broke up with me because I told her I didn’t plan on marrying again. I don’t date at all now. I work hard and do my own thing.

DSO
There does appear to be a pattern here… not to play psychologist… and I don’t mean to overstep my bounds.
1. Being attracted to broken women
2. Ignoring red flags and jumping into serious relationships with broken women.
3. Pursuing relationships with women who are already attached to others.
Sounds like you nipped #2 in the bud and stopped the marriage train.

William
If I had to self-psychoanalyze, I’d say that I have a bit of a hero complex after seeing my mom take some hellacious beatings and not being big enough to stop it. I did not grow up to be an abuser. But instead I grew up allowing myself to be used. I didn’t stand up for myself. Now I do. I am fine on my own. I’d love to meet someone who would love me, but it is not a priority.

DSO
Did you have a close relationship with your mom? Almost a surrogate spouse to her?

William
Yes. She is a retired nurse and an absolute hero.

I’m about out of time. I wanted to plug the Straight Spouse Network. It is a support group among those who may have married homosexuals either knowingly or unknowingly. They are at www.Straightspouse.org. They have been very healing for me over the last couple of years.

DSO
Thank you for sharing your story!

William
You’re Welcome. Keep up the good work.